Chasing the dragon, after the break.
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| "How many of these can I fit into one case?" |
Much of my previous play time with Harkevich was devoted to the idea of finding a list for him that I'd be comfortable dropping against a variety of lists, with a bit of an emphasis on fighting battlegroup v. battlegroup. Colossals were/are a big challenge (no pun intended....this time) so I figured I'd fight fire with fire and came up with this list:
Theme w/Conquest:
Kommander Harkevich, the Iron Wolf (*5pts)
* Black Ivan (9pts)
* Conquest (18pts)
* Grolar (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
* Battle Mechanik Officer (2pts)
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)
I liked this list quite a bit the few times I played it. Paraphrasing longtime Khador player Nigel (stephenswayze on forums) on various podcasts, Conquest may not be the best colossal on it's own merits but it's one of Khador's best anti-colossal measures. It also brings a solid gun to the table and some secondary guns that can do a little work, so it fits in with the "punch and shoot" vibe you want with Harkevich's battlegroup. Plus it's a good scenario model with all of the benefits of colossals and Mechaniks + UA standing behind it, wrenches at the ready.
However, Conquest is also a concern for me. It's a lot of points tied up into one model, and Harkevich's theme doesn't have at least one key way to support it: if my opponent has a negative upkeep and sticks it on him, its there all game. That's a problem. Another concern is that this list is very dense, both in terms of models and in terms of attack output, and it relies a lot on blast damage for infantry removal.
Those factors make me a bit nervous about the list in a general sense, but it's also one of the better Harkevich lists I've been able to come up with that can handle a colossal. I could tweak it by dropping a warjack and the WMM to work in a Winter Guard unit (either Infantry or Rifle Corps) which would help out attack density a lot, but that then hurts the ARM skew and ability of the list to spread out. And so on, and so on.
All of that theory was in a standalone format. As I think more about Steamroller (SR) play, I find myself returning more towards something like the Quad Clam list or a variant. I don't feel like I need to worry nearly as much about a colossal/beefy battlegroup in SR play with Harkevich. That's not at all what he's good at dealing with, so I can focus his list more on what he excels at, then focus the paired list on dealing with colossals/heavy battlegroups/meat mountains that I'd otherwise be worried about.
As a refresher, here's the Quad Clam list:
* Black Ivan (9pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
Again, full T4 theme list (most of my Harkevich lists are.)
This is a list I enjoyed running tremendously, and I think it has legs in an SR environment. It's very strong in scenario and it clears infantry like a champ; the only thing it doesn't do well is deal with armor. A heavy or two is workable - you can slam or two-handed throw them around and focus on scoring CPs - but a large enemy battlegroup is more problematic, and models that can't be moved (Tiberion, some upkeeps/feats, huge bases) are a big pain in the ass.
Because of that, I've considered other battlegroup configurations. I think two Demolishers is enough to give you a really strong scenario game (especially with Harkevich's benefits,) so after that you can afford to bring in some other types of warjacks to give you a little more offensive output. In the past I've considered Juggernauts and Spriggans, which have worked well but not amazingly so.
Enter the Grolar (great name for a Russian kung fu movie.) As I've mused about elsewhere, the Grolar is a very interesting new warjack for Harkevich (and Khador in general.) It doesn't do any one thing amazingly well, but it's got enough going for it (contingent speed, high volume of attacks, knockdown melee weapon) that it feels like a very "live" choice in a Harkevich battlegroup. In the context of the theme list, you're also getting them for 8 points, which makes them a pretty attractive "upgrade" over a Juggernaut.
With that in mind, here's what I'm considering as my "base" Harkevich list for SR:
Harkevich Theme List - Mixed Armor:
Kommander Harkevich, the Iron Wolf (*5pts)
* Black Ivan (9pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Grolar (8pts)
* Grolar (8pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
* Black Ivan (9pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Demolisher (8pts)
* Grolar (8pts)
* Grolar (8pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
Mind blowing changes, eh?
The idea is that the Demolishers can still run a very strong scenario game and serve as point models. The Grolars add warjacks to the battlegroup that can make attacks without dropping their ARM, and they can also kick out a large volume of attacks if need be. The Grolars can also hoof it with Fleet and Escort (12" run) so they can redeploy pretty quickly to open scenario zones (or to contest areas in danger.)
The biggest downside to this change is that it reduces the ARM skew of the list fairly significantly. In the Quad Clam configuration, Black Ivan is the only warjack with ARM 20, and he's usually hanging back, shooting, and giving Harkevich the Escort ARM bonus. You're assaulting your opponent's army with nothing but ARM 25, and they need to deal with that. This configuration puts some more ARM 20's in the mix, which makes the battlegroup "squishier", though I think that's relative.
A key area of concern is when going up against boostable, good POW guns, as those are going to be the best way to soften the Grolars up before I can use them. Unfortunately, points are tight so I can't really find a way to squeeze Mechaniks into the list to offset that kind of ranged attrition.
Ultimately though, I'm not super concerned about boostable guns with this list. First: the Wreck Markers you get to deploy for the theme list help cut down on hits you'll take on the approach (more so vs. Warmachine than Hordes.) Second: I'm still trying to lead with the Demolishers, which aren't likely to take a lot of damage from boostable guns (give or take a Hunter.) Finally, and most importantly: I don't think I'd want to drop Harkevich against the factions most likely to put those kinds of guns on the table - Legion, and most of all Cygnar. So it may be entirely moot (as my other list will be dealing with them.)
There are two things I'm still working on with this list:
1) I seriously want to change the Field Gun Crew out for Mortars to give the list even more anti-infantry, but there aren't any points for it. The only way I can realistically make that happen is to swap the Grolars out for Juggernauts. Not an awful trade, but I don't think it's worth it.
2) I'm also seriously debating the merits of WGI vs. WGRC in this list.
WGI bring all the usual bells and whistles to the table - sprays, CRA blunderbusses, lots of flexibility - and Harkevich can make them crazy accurate with Fortune. The downside is that the unit is relatively short ranged, and susceptible to having key models picked off in the Standard Bearer and Officer (can mitigate via spacing, but not always possible to stop.)
WGRC bring a very different set of traits to the table. Very long range firepower that will likewise be crazy accurate with Fortune allows them to engage and pick off most enemy shooting infantry. In particular, I think they could effectively handle obnoxious "push/pull" models like Druids, ATGM, and Battle Mages before they become a problem. It also has enough reach to potentially get to support models, and the accuracy to pick off the dodgier ones. And then there is the denial potential of the Suppressing Fire templates, which could be a big help in keeping single wound infantry from being able to safely charge certain battlegroup elements.
The biggest loss with switching to WGRC is the loss of flexibility; they're POW 10 4 lyfe, so anything ARM 18 or above isn't going to be too worried by them (though I'm not above throwing shots and hoping for the best if I don't have any other alternative.) No CRA means that they're never going to be of help against a warnoun (barring a Joe infused suicide charge,) and if they get stuck in melee then it's sad times (although they should be relatively safe from that with a warjack wall in front of them.)
I think it ends up being a wash between the two units; it mainly comes down to which side is more appealing. The flexibility and body count of the WGI are extremely useful (they've been battle tested in this list and proven an excellent choice every time,) but the specific things the WGRC bring to the table are also very compelling.
Since I have experience with the WGI, I'll probably give the WGRC some table time when I get around to testing the 2 Demolisher, 2 Grolar version of the list. Worse comes to worse, I'll just rotate the WGI back in. The next step is going to be getting some reps in with this list and see how I like it. Hopefully I'll be able to do that over the next month or so, and if/when that happens I'll post up reports and impressions.
Next time, I'll be going over what I think this list would be good against (possibly battle tested, possibly not,) what I wouldn't want to drop it against, and most importantly what I'd pair it with. And, barring a release list update from PP, I'll also bitch a bit about how the Grolar is nowhere in sight, so all this theory may be moot until early 2015.
As always, thanks very much for reading!
The biggest loss with switching to WGRC is the loss of flexibility; they're POW 10 4 lyfe, so anything ARM 18 or above isn't going to be too worried by them (though I'm not above throwing shots and hoping for the best if I don't have any other alternative.) No CRA means that they're never going to be of help against a warnoun (barring a Joe infused suicide charge,) and if they get stuck in melee then it's sad times (although they should be relatively safe from that with a warjack wall in front of them.)
I think it ends up being a wash between the two units; it mainly comes down to which side is more appealing. The flexibility and body count of the WGI are extremely useful (they've been battle tested in this list and proven an excellent choice every time,) but the specific things the WGRC bring to the table are also very compelling.
Since I have experience with the WGI, I'll probably give the WGRC some table time when I get around to testing the 2 Demolisher, 2 Grolar version of the list. Worse comes to worse, I'll just rotate the WGI back in. The next step is going to be getting some reps in with this list and see how I like it. Hopefully I'll be able to do that over the next month or so, and if/when that happens I'll post up reports and impressions.
Next time, I'll be going over what I think this list would be good against (possibly battle tested, possibly not,) what I wouldn't want to drop it against, and most importantly what I'd pair it with. And, barring a release list update from PP, I'll also bitch a bit about how the Grolar is nowhere in sight, so all this theory may be moot until early 2015.
As always, thanks very much for reading!
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