Khador's New Colossal - Victor

Behold, the newest colossal addition to Khador's arsenal: Victor.

I've already gone over my thoughts on the TempleCon presentation in general, so without further ado, lets dive right into talking about Victor!

The "Known"s:
The only things we can say that we know for certain about Victor are what the PP staffers said as part of the presentation. Pretty much all that info is contained on one slide:

We can also add the following, based on what was said when describing Victor:

 - One of the presenters specifically says it "makes a 5" rough terrain feature".

 - The gun is described as "large, very long range but inaccurate weapon" with ammo types.

 - "Take down the DEF of enemy models hit by the template"

 - "Set everything under the template on fire"

Anything beyond that is speculation, but there is some speculation that is probably well founded.

The "Probable"s:
Lets interpret some of the things presented and try to piece together what the main gun on Victor could be:

"Large" combined with the description of the rough terrain feature size means that we're almost certainly looking at a AOE 5 gun.

"Very long range" could mean literally anything, based on what the definition of "long range is". I am certain it will be longer ranged than Conquest's gun (> RNG 15) and considering it's called the Siege Mortar I'm willing to go out on a limb and say it'll be a RNG 20 gun. Especially since it almost certainly has the Inaccurate rule (as per the normal Mortar) based on the description.

What made the Mortar great back in the day was the ability to place (then) high POW, large AOE templates far down range. Accuracy was the trade off, but it was ultimately worth it for opportunity cost. The Siege Mortar could be that same idea scaled up and modernized (the game has moved past POW 8 blast damage mattering much.)

Considering its on the same chassis, there is little reason to assume that Victor won't have the exact same base stats and grid as Conquest.

Similarly, it is reasonable to expect that Victor will have similar, if not the exact same melee output as Conquest. Conquest has a high STR but low POW on it's fists, so unless Victor loses out on STR or weapon POW somehow (possible, if unlikely) it'll probably be equally as capable in melee.

Victor is also very likely to be 19 points, if not 20. A point increase would involve some serious beefiness over Conquest (a colossal I think is a point overcosted), but anything is possible so I don't rule it out. I think it is most likely going to be 19 points, and just really feel worth those 19 points.

The "Total Speculation"s:
The Siege Mortar is hard to guess at. The obvious guess is that its a really big Mortar strapped to the back of a colossal, and will operate in a similar way. Very long RNG, high POW, but Inaccurate on top of a low RAT (so it's going to rely on deviations, blast damage, and now secondary effects for output.)

What I think is a fair guess is:

RNG: 20, AOE: 5, POW: 18, Inaccurate, Ammo Types

Its feasible that the Siege Mortar may also have Arcing Fire. It would be pretty potent on a Huge base that can always shoot (so long as the Superstructure is functional,) but that's likely offset by effective RAT 0 (4-4) that goes up to a whopping RAT 2 while aiming. Even still, that's a little scary with any Khador accuracy buffs and a boost. But, scary is what Victor needs to be in order to really shake things up. I could also see the Siege Mortar picking up some version of the Minimum Range [x] rule from the Mortar as a way to keep the Siege Mortar in check if they decide to make it particularly potent.

The other thing that is up in the air is if the Siege Mortar's Ammo Types override the normal blast damage on the Siege Mortar. Whether or not a gun keeps it's original damage profile while also using the Ammo Types varies by implementation, so it's hard to guess. My gut says that the Siege Mortar is the main feature of Victor so I'd assume that the Ammo Types are just ways to supplement the shots you're making (especially since they're very inaccurate shots.) That also matches how the Ammo Type rule works on the Earthbreaker, which is the closest parallel we have to this kind of gun (i.e. colossal gun with multiple shot types, chosen from at time of attack.)

The secondary guns are impossible to guess at. I would have guessed literally anything other than what we got for the Secondary Batterys on Conquest (especially since they're kind of bad.) The cannons appear to be machine guns, so they may just be Rapid Fire guns, with or without any fancy special rules to back them up. I don't expect them to have any AOE (they look like regular, large machine guns) which will hopefully mean they have a decent profile.

The fists on Victor look like they have another big 'ol armor plate on them beyond what Conquest has. While I'd love to believe those actually mean something, odds are really good that they're just embellishment. Or possibly some POW increase to offset any kind of STR deficit Victor has. I think it's very unlikely that they'll be Bucklers or have any in-game effect at all. Though dear god would I not turn that down.

My Thoughts Based on All The Above:
I'm very excited by Victor's possibilities. To understand why, lets take a look at how I feel about Conquest.

I've used Conquest in a bunch of different lists against a number of different opponents. I was extremely excited for Conquest when he first came out, and I bought one almost immediately (even after reading early spoilers.)

The upsides to Conquest are that it has fantastic melee output (along with innate Reach and Pathfinder,) a good gun that is periodically fantastic (Critical Devastation is often a game changer,) and it's innately very durable with the possibility of being backed up by one of the best Mechanik units in the game.

However, the downsides to Conquest are...frustrating. While it has one good gun, that gun can fail to pull weight when it doesn't get crits. It has solid POW and RNG, but neither are especially amazing. The Main Guns can do some anti-infantry work with it's AOE though the game has largely moved beyond even POW 8 blast damage doing reasonable work. Thus, Conquest's Main Guns are best used for fishing for crits against vulnerable formations or softening up another heavy target on the way in.

While you're doing all that, the Secondary Batterys are just kind of...there. They're unlikely to do much work without boosts or aiming (or both,) and the Linked rule is almost innate anti-synergy. The AOE is small, which is already an issue, and on top of that the POW of the shot is low which results in laughable blast damage. That all directly translates into the sadness that is Creeping Barrage: even though it's weak area denial, it's still most often worth putting those templates down instead of trying to do anything with direct shots (or drifts.)

So what you end up getting out of Conquest is one good (sometimes fantastic) gun, solid durability, and great melee. The issue I've had with it is that the lackluster secondary guns make it hard to get 19 points worth of work out of Conquest, or at least feel like you are. It's a mediocre gun platform, and it can't quite support itself well enough to vanguard, so Conquest feels out of place in the two positions it ends up in.

Victor seems to fix all of those issues. Although it's Siege Mortar is Inaccurate, it seems to be better suited to anti-infantry duty than Conquest's (Fire on hit is better than pretty much any attainable blast damage,) and Victor can add supplemental bonuses with it's Flare and Crater shots. If the Siege Mortar has any kind of range it'll be able to drop shells virtually anywhere on the table after turn 1 (Conquest's RNG 15 gun reaches way further than I expect most of the time) and it's not even worth aiming to try and offset RAT 0 (whereas Conquest's RAT is just not-terrible enough to tempt you to aim sometimes.)

Victor also has the chance to make up for Conquest's biggest failing: decent secondary guns. Even if the secondary cannons end up being simple Hand Cannons with Rapid Fire, I'll probably appreciate them more than the Secondary Batterys. Plus they'll probably be able to do some fair work on turns Victor can aim and they'll probably be reasonably dangerous with an accuracy buff. If the secondary cannons end up at all better than Hand Cannons in terms of stats (so long as they have some special rule to increase their attack volume,) then they'll be pretty damn great.

Other than that, I don't expect Victor to be all that different from Conquest. PP specifically called out how these colossals are similar to the chassis variants we're familiar with among the heavy warjacks. Most of those variants are weapon swaps, with maybe a couple of special rules tacked on or swapped around for flair. Considering that Victor is looking to swap out all of Conquest's weapons (and possibly have different Fist profiles) I think that'll be enough to set it apart.

Possible Impact:
This is even more rampant speculation, based on my best guesses at what Victor's weapons may be. All of this is subject to radical change as more information is revealed, and I'm sure I'll ride the rollercoaster of hype and crushing disappointment as spoilers come to light. But for right now I'm riding the high of possibilities.

My initial impression was that Victor would pretty much replace Conquest. It's Siege Mortar will probably be a very useful gun and it is unlikely that the secondary guns will be any worse than Conquest's Secondary Batterys. Victor is probably going to be a much better gun platform that Conquest is, even with the Siege Mortar being an inaccurate gun.

However, after thinking about it more, I think Conquest will still be preferable in some lists. Victor's potential potency (ho ho) as a fire base will also probably make it more prone to hanging back and dumping shells on the enemy army. That will be fantastic in lists that want that kind of fire base, but some lists are going to want a colossal that will be more comfortable being aggressive.

Like it or not, Creeping Barrage is still better than nothing as a defensive measure, and it can actually come in handy against certain kinds of infantry. Conquest will also probably make better use of accuracy buffs (being able to make good use of them with its Main Guns and Secondary Batterys) and will probably operate better "on the move". Plus, there is always the possibility that Conquest will edge out Victor in melee hitting power (say, if Victor is P+S 21 instead of 22,) which will also preserve it's niche.

What may end up being the case is that, instead of replacing Conquest, Victor ends up being a great compliment to it. Victor's guns can help against the targets Conquest struggles to clear out (blast resistant/immune infantry, some Stealth infantry,) the Flare effect can combo well with Conquest's fists and guns (bringing it up to effective MAT 8/RAT 6,) and Craters can combo with Creeping Barrage for two different kinds of board control. Albeit two limited forms of board control. But sometimes that's all you get in Khador.

I'm also speaking from a somewhat hopeful position. My ideal for any colossal is that it is a solid choice in 30-40% of lists, an alright choice in some others, and there are plenty of reasons to use an alternate battlegroup configuration in the rest of lists. Conquest actually achieves that, more or less, but it's also frustrating when you see other factions with colossals that are more useful and potent. Getting another 30-40% colossal would put Khador in a place where most the casters would have a good colossal option to take if you wanted to, some would have a Huge BFF, and others would make use of Khador's various excellent character warjacks and some of the specialized normal warjacks (Spriggan and Grolar.) I think that would be a pretty fun position to be in, list creation wise, so here's hoping Victor is a step in that direction.

Caster Rundown:
Quickly running down Khador's 'caster list and who may or may not want to bring a Victor along (based entirely on this early speculation and conjecture:)

 - Sorscha1: You know what even RAT 0 can hit? DEF 5. Combine that with some decent multi-shot secondary guns, and Sorscha1 may have a strong new piece to work with. Depends a lot on the specifics of Victor's guns, and whether or not its worth shifting away from how people are running her now. Still very intriguing.

 - Sorscha2: A colossal is a good target for Sorscha2's bond due to durability and footprint, so Victor fits in there. Sorscha2 is one of the few places I regularly take WGI, so Victor's anti-infantry potential isn't as needed, but Flare could be nice to soften a target up and make the WGI that much more accurate against it. Victor and Conquest are probably interchangeable here, depending on what you want from the colossal (and Victor's final rules.)

 - Vlad1: This is one of (if not the best) places in the faction for a Conquest, and that's not going to change. There is potential for Victor to greatly extend the effective range of S&P by projecting threat way up the table, but Conquest may still be the better choice to get more consistent work out of S&P. At worst, they'll be equally good choices.

 - Vlad2: Colossals with Vlad2 are weird due to his focus on making a handful of warrior models great. Conquest isn't a great fit with that, but Victor may fare better. Between Victor's Siege Mortar, HoF on various models, and Vlad2's feat, you could feasibly run a list that aims to clear out everything that can threaten Victor, then ride out the rest of the game. Conquest doesn't consistently do enough work for that plan to pay out, so we'll see if Victor has the chops to make that approach feasible.

 - Vlad3: Another weird colossal spot. I have enjoyed running a Conquest in Vlad3's theme list; starting the game with a colossal 23"-26" in on the table is fun. I'm not sure if Victor will be better suited for that job; a lot of it depends on if the Siege Mortar gets stuck with a Minimum Range value and how useful the secondary guns are. Not really a 'caster you want a colossal with (especially since Ruin should be bananas with Vlad3) and if you're going that route you're probably better off with a Conquest.

 - Butcher1: This one is a toss up, with the edge going to Conquest. Both colossals benefit equally from Butcher1's melee buffing, but Conquest may end up being able to make better use of the feat with it's Main Guns (that are more likely to hit a specific target) and Secondary Batterys generating AOEs (crappy AOEs, but volume is what you're looking for.) A lot depends on the stats for Victor's guns, though again this will probably be at worst a 'caster you can run either with effectively.

 - Butcher2: The first epic Butcher is a pretty good spot for a colossal, regardless of how you run him. A Huge base gives him something nice to hide behind, the guns can give you more feat tokens, and a colossal with Conferred Rage bonuses and Fury will kill most anything. Conquest may still end up being the better pick over Victor, since Conquest's guns are more likely to kill things on feat turn (though again that may change based on specifics.) Victor also may not be a great choice because drifting Siege Mortar shots are just as likely to kill your own Doom Reavers as the opponent, since they're going to be so aggressive.

 - Butcher3: The second epic Butcher doesn't really want a colossal, and I can't see anything about Victor that would change that. Victor at least has less of a need for Focus than Conquest does - just keep throwing out Siege Mortar shots - and Flare could help Butcher3 against higher DEF targets. But you're probably better off with another battlegroup build.

 - Irusk1: Feels like a toss up, possibly leaning towards Conquest. Superiority is a fantastic buff for warjacks that want to be aggressive, and Conquest is going to be the more likely of the two to be moving around and wanting to charge into combat. Victor's scattering templates may also be a hazard for the other infantry you have around.

 - Irusk2: I don't really like a colossal with Irusk2 due to practical reasons (it eats up a lot of real estate he or his army wants to be moving through,) but Victor may bring enough to the table to offset that. If the Siege Mortar ends up being a really big Mortar it'll make an absolutely fantastic Fire For Effect target, with Flare also helping out the IFP Irusk2 often brings along if they're going after higher DEF heavies. Probably still better off with the usual heavy + Mortar combo, but worth testing when Victor's stats come out.

 - Zerkova: Zerkova's spell list is pretty weak, so she loves having a powerful model to wash her Focus through. Conquest is already a good model for that, and Victor may be as good, if not better. The Siege Mortar could give Zerkova's list another potent anti-infantry tool, and if you're going nuts you can potentially get it back up to effective RAT 4 (Icy Grip + aiming) which may be enough to tag some targets directly. Zerkova can also probably afford to dump Focus into its secondary cannons, so if those are any good she can allow Victor to make a number of effective attacks in a turn.

 - Strakov: Strakov is a weird 'caster to run colossals with. You lose out on Overrun, but you gain a pretty good Sentry target, and something that hits very hard in melee (which Strakov kind of needs for the long game.) Victor is almost certainly going to be an even better Sentry target than Conquest, so that's a good start. I'm not sure how effective it will be, but launching Crater templates during your opponent's turn should be entertaining.

 - Karchev: Karchev wants pretty much nothing to do with Conquest, and I don't think Victor is going to change that. Karchev is mostly still holding out for the Grolar (and maybe Ruin) as a gameplay booster. With any luck, it'll show up before he goes Epic for the first or second time.

 - Old Witch: This is an interesting one. The Old Witch was one of the 'casters hit hardest by colossals. She doesn't have any way to help her list deal with an opposing one, and she doesn't do much to buff her own. Conquest seemed like a good addition to her battlegroup, but at least in my testing it didn't really solve her problems and it is pretty Focus hungry on top of all that. Victor may be a better fit. The Siege Mortar may be a great gun to have for Augury (especially in match ups where opponents try to hide behind forests/cloud walls for safety,) and the Old Witch's anti-infantry tools could help keep it safe while it shells the opponent. Still no fix for the colossal v. colossal fight, but Victor at least seems more dangerous than Conquest in Old Witch's battlegroup.

 - Harkevich: He gets his own subheading.

He Who Should Not Be Named:
I'd be remiss if I didn't jabber on for a bit about Harkevich's potential with Victor. This is still the realm of near total speculation (and hopeful speculation at that) but I think Victor could be precisely what Harkevich has always wanted.

Harkevich feels like a 'caster that wants to have a colossal. Fortune is a fair accuracy buff for the multiple attacks they're capable of, Broadsides lets you get extra work out of their big, scary guns, and his feat goes a lot further with a colossal than it does with any two heavies. Harkevich is also obstinately battlegroup focused, but can't afford to fuel a bunch of warjacks, so its great to have one powerful model to wash his Focus through.

However, Conquest has never quite worked out for me with Harkevich. The Main Guns are fun, but they don't do a lot of work on their own, and they end up being a fairly poor Broadsides shot (despite being one of the biggest guns Khador can throw around.) Couple that with Conquest's difficulty in doing a lot of work at range (no amount of Fortune can offset how lackluster the Secondary Batterys are on offense,) and you end up with a model that doesn't really play into Harkevich's strengths, despite how it first appears.

Victor may end up being that colossal that Harkevich has always wanted. The Siege Mortar may be a fantastic anti-infantry gun (with some ability to do work against other colossals/heavies with boosting and Fortune) and the secondary cannons may give Harkevich a better return on Fortune. Broadsides can (and hopefully will, unless some wording shenanigans happen) allow Harkevich to get twice as much work out of the Siege Mortar which could make it a fantastic anti-infantry tool.

Alternatively, depending on if Minimum Range shows up (I think it will, but how far it ends up being is much harder to guess,) Victor could also effectively self-buff its MAT when charging on feat turn by shooting the Flare shot at its target prior to charging in.

The ability of Harkevich's theme list to do the first turn running Broadsides is also much, much more interesting with guns like the Siege Mortar. I've had some cute moments with that trick in the past with Conquest's gun, or even Black Ivan's. I can imagine bigger, longer range templates with something like Fire on hit could do a lot more damage. That shenanigan is exciting, and it may be potent enough to consider two Victors for Harkevich.

Even if you don't take two Victors, taking one Victor and one Conquest may be a good way to go with Harkevich. Victor will (in theory) lend the list some more potent anti-infantry tools, while Conquest will offer more accurate (extremely relative to Khador warjack "accuracy") shots along with a tool to keep low ARM infantry at bay (Creeping Barrage.) That will probably be one of the first things I test when Victor's rules come out. I'm much more likely to end up with one of each colossal (assuming Victor's rules aren't bad,) versus buying two of Victor just for Harkevich.

Overall, it's a very exciting prospect for a 'caster I really want to be able to play more competitively. Victor's potential with Harkevich is the number one reason I'm excited to see the final rules for the big guy. Hopefully that will happen sooner than later this year.

Closing:
I've warmed up to the idea of Victor. At first, I was disappointed to hear that another round of colossals were coming out. That was followed by being excited but bitter, because I was sure Victor would all but replace Conquest.

Now, though, I'm not so sure. I desperately want Victor to be cool, effective, and interesting, but I also think it's very possible for PP to achieve that while still leaving Conquest a niche where its the "better" colossal choice. I'd feel more confident about that if Conquest had a stronger rule set to work with, but that's not Victor's fault (nor is it anything that is changing anytime soon.)

We have precious little "concrete" info for Victor, but what we do have is very exciting. Who knows when we'll see more information for any of the colossals; the Sepulcher is the only one in model form already, but based on the release schedule it won't be coming out until June at the earliest. We may see more info about the second round of colossals in a NQ around then, and of course we should get the full rules whenever Warmachine: Reckoning comes out (I've heard Summer 2015, for what that's worth.)

Until then, all we can do is speculate and stew. As soon as I come across any more concrete info about Victor, you can be sure I'll be back to dump another 1,000 words about it, so keep an eye out for future updates!

As always, thanks very much for reading.