SmogCon - PP Presenation Recap and Thoughts

As hinted at the end of the recent TempleCon keynote presentation, PP gave a presentation at SmogCon that was meant to parallel the...huge announcements (sorry) they made during their previous presentation. This presentation was supposed to be Hordes oriented, and since the last presentation announced a second set of colossals for Warmachine, everyone was expecting this presentation to reveal a second set of gargantuans for Hordes.

Turns out, everyone was right! Watch the reveal here:

Privateer Press SmogCon Presentation

Join me after the break for a quick recap of what was revealed, and my thoughts about what each new gargantuan might have in store, along with some other little tidbits PP snuck in at the end of the presentation.
The New Gargantuans
The four original Hordes factions will be getting a new gargantuan, presumably sometime this year (especially since one of the models was showcased). Unlike the second set of Warmachine colossals, these new gargantuans are completely new creatures. There was some debate and speculation as to whether or not the second round of gargantuans (if there was to be one) would be variants on the originals, or something entirely new. For the most part, PP opted to go with something entirely new with each of these new gargantuans, and I think it paid off massively (har har).

Going over each of the announced models:

 - Glacier King: Aptly named, the Glacier King sounds like it's going to bring a lot of cold-themed control to Trollblood lists. It's Frozen Ground animus could give it some solid area denial, and it creates Concealment around it which should be helpful for a number of Trollblood models. Plus it has Big Frosty Fists (probably some form of Stationary attached) and a Wind Thrower ranged it attack, so it should be decently equipped in terms of offensive output.

The Mountain King is one of the most maligned of the original gargantuans, probably because it was the first one to be released, and because the ratio of model awesomeness compared to model efficacy is low. Even though it's found a few supporters, I can't imagine the Glacier King not being better than it in almost every measurable way. The Glacier King sounds like its going to bring some army support and an interesting animus (supposedly that spell exists in the IKRPG and it knocks down anything that ends it's movement within 3" of the model with that spell on it,) which already put it ahead of the Mountain King. Assuming it's offensive output is merely on par (which would be kind of sad), it's still better off. If the Glacier King has any improvements in the melee or ranged departments, expect to see it way more than you see Mountain Kings.

 - Storm Raptor: Few phrases terrify me more than "Krueger's best friend". Of all the things I would have guessed for Circle, a gigantic lightning bird is not one of them, but it's a wonderful surprise (and I'm sincere when I say that). The description for it is pretty straightforward: it's a fast (SPD 7), Flying gargantuan that buffs the attack and damage rolls of electrical weapons. The million dollar question is: does it have some way to benefit from that itself? Circle is pretty light on Electrical typed damage (all things considered), so in order to be worthwhile I'm assuming it has to have some way to benefit from that itself. I'm assuming it will, otherwise that's a lot of points to sink into a very niche support role.

This is a hard warbeast to get a feel for. In it's niche, I'm sure it will be great: Chain Lightning with any kind of boost is scary, as is Krueger1's feat. What we don't know right now is how good it will be on it's own, which will make or break how useful it will be in other lists. I could definitely see it being decent - SPD 7, Flight, and hopefully some kind of lightning gun are a good place to start - but it's hard to guess at when all we know right now is that it brings lightning synergy (in a faction that actually doesn't have a ton of it). Sort of like the Prime Conflux.

All that said, I don't think it would take much for it to have more applicability than the Woldwrath. If you can cast spells on it and heal it with your warlock, it's pretty much automatically better. At that point it boils down to details.

 - Blightbringer: This is one of the most fascinating of the new gargantuans, for a couple of reasons. First: it's not a dragon themed thing! Point of fact, it's a big, ugly monster, and I love that. Second: it seems to be mostly support, with the description of it focusing on it's Blighted Breath effects (spell disruption, "reducing health and defenses of enemies", ash that conceals friendlies) over any kind of offensive prowess. I'm sure it will have some attacks, but unlike the Archangel (which struggles to try to break even with Legion's offensively powerful warbeasts) it sounds like the Blightbringer is more trying to supplement the army, and find value in that role.

I used to play Legion, and the disappointment of the Archangel was something I felt deeply. I proxied it a few times, but it never really felt worth it. Fantastic model though, and I've heard it's found some niche value, which is nice. I can easily see the Blightbringer being more valuable than the Archangel, assuming it has decent damage output (I'm guessing a bite and the two big spike hand-things it has) and it's support elements are worthwhile. The Archangel is a fairly low hurdle to clear.

 - Desert Hydra: Skorne's new gargantuan is the only one we have a model for, and it looks absolutely fantastic. The video specifically mentions that this model will have the Multiple Heads rule (which allows for 'x' number of initial attacks, split between melee and ranged as you choose) but with a value of 5! The Desert Hydra is also sporting sprays, and word on the street is that the Desert Hydra can choose between: firing five 6" sprays, or one 10" spray. In either case, the spray supposedly has the Poison rule (which makes sense since the presentation says the damn thing spits poison). It may also be inferred based on fluff that the Desert Hydra will have Hyper Regeneration as an animus, but that's all supposition.

The Mammoth is probably the most outwardly potent of all the original gargantuans, and I think it and the Desert Hydra will probably end up close together in terms of power. The Desert Hydra will probably be faster and have a greater volume of attacks (thanks to sprays and all of it's initials) but I expect the Mammoth with continue to be the more durable (both in terms of ARM and boxes) and physically powerful of the two (since it's a titan, and I don't expect the Hydra to have Fury 5).

General Thoughts
There is something that Will Schick says during the presentation that I think is worth bearing in mind. When comparing the new gargantuans with the old ones, he says they are:

"...just as powerful and on the same level as their predecessors, but don't replace them in any way"

That quote is somewhat concerning, though it makes sense if you think about it.

On one hand, PP has at least a small obligation to everyone who purchased the old gargantuans. It's not really fair to those owners to turn around just a couple years later and release models that are remarkably better than the original set. That's bound to make players feel jilted and bitter about their investment, and probably also leave them feeling shaky about having faith in PP's ability to consistently produce quality rules.

On the other hand, PP also has to know that the first wave of gargantuans were not particularly well received. The models were, and still are, generally well regarded, but the rules fell well short of player expectations, and some would argue well short of competitive viability. While I don't doubt that the original gargantuans sold alright based solely on the high quality of the models, I'm sure they also didn't have nearly the impact PP was hoping for, both in terms of game impact and general acceptance.

That leaves the new wave of gargantuans in a precarious spot: they should probably be good enough to be used consistently (though not necessarily hot glued into every battlegroup) but they can't be so good that they completely outshine the older gargantuans and make owners of those models feel jilted. Given how low the bar is for outdoing most of the old gargantuans, that will probably be a tricky thing to do. My bet is that quote is meant to cater to both camps: assuage owners of the old gargantuans that they won't be rendered obsolete, and a caution to everyone else not to get your hopes up too high, just in case.

For my money, it'd be better to just acknowledge that the previous wave of gargantuans were made with a flawed design and fix that at some point in the future (Mk. 3, massive errata, yard sale, whatever). Delivering another round of excellent models (if the Desert Hydra is any indication) with mediocre-to-bad rules is only going to create more frustration, as now everyone will have two excellent looking models that aren't that useful.

Although there are some builds that make use of the original gargantuans, by and large they are very rare models to see on the table in a competitive environment. However, what is potentially interesting is how many models PP sold based on looks and "well maybe I can make it work". While that may have worked once, I'm not sure players would be willing to experiment like that again. Hobbyists will no doubt leap at the opportunity to assemble, convert, and paint up the new gargantuans (I'm much more impressed with all of the new ones, save maybe the Glacier King), but how many of those are there? And can/will PP endure another round of substantial player disappointment?

In many ways, this second set of gargantuans mirrors the second set of colossals: it holds a lot of potential to make up for missed opportunities in the previous release (i.e. the factions that didn't get a particularly great one). The two biggest differences are:

1) The new gargantuans have more ground to make up. For as much as I may complain about something like Conquest, it still has it's good lists and is generally a functional colossal; it mainly pales in comparison to the really effective, useful ones. And there are several factions with fantastic colossals already, so they don't really have any expectations (other than probably "there's no way this new one will be as good").

Gargantuans don't have that luxury. The best of the bunch by a long shot is the Mammoth, and even that model has failed to stick (though that's probably more for a reason I'll get to in a minute). Most of the gargantuans fell well short of expectations and years of play testing since their release haven't revealed them to be much better than initially thought. There is a bigger gulf between what the current gargantuans are (or at least are perceived to be) and what players consider to be useful gargantuans. Based on the aforementioned quote, I'm not sure PP is able or willing to close that gap, but I hope they are.

2) Colossals work very well because Focus is a limited and often hotly contested resource, so you're usually better off filtering that Focus through powerful means - warcaster spells, some warcaster attacks, character warjack profiles, colossal attacks. Colossals and character warjacks end up being the best ways to use Focus if you're spending it on warjacks, hence their popularity.

Hordes is much the opposite: the warbeasts are generating the Fury, which the rest of your list then has to manage, so the quality of attacks isn't as important (though it certainly doesn't hurt if they're great). It is a bigger benefit to have multiple heavies - more attacks/boosts - and there are other mechanical benefits that make it damn near mandatory - more transfer targets, animi.

Where Warmachine armies get stronger when consolidating two-ish heavies into a colossal, Hordes armies almost universally get weaker when doing the same with a gargantuan. The loss of flexibility and animi is an issue, and Hordes armies tend to not favor the "all your eggs in one basket" approach that Huge warnouns adopt. Warmachine armies often have at least some infantry around to pull weight (if not plenty of solid infantry), whereas Hordes armies often rely on their warbeasts to do either most of the lifting, or the most crucial lifting (mid-late game). Tying all that up in one neat, killable/controllable model is much less palatable.

Neither of those reasons are insurmountable. PP can make the new gargantuans good enough to actually be useful, even if it may take a little time for players to overcome their initial reactions (plenty of people tried with the original set). And while there probably isn't a great way around the "consolidation" issue, it can be alleviated by at least giving the new gargantuans interesting and useful animi; one of the biggest failings of the last set was that almost all of their animi were selfish and/or not very useful (the Woldwrath being the biggest exception).

But Wait, There's More
The video for the new set of gargantuans was very similar to the video showcasing the new set of colossals, up until the last minute or so. Two cool things pop up around that point:

1) A "10th Anniversary of Hordes" box set, which is supposedly similar to the 10th Anniversary of Warmachine box set (that contained Butcher3 and his diorama set).

2) A sizzle reel of concept art and finished artwork for all kinds of cool stuff that will presumably be in the next Hordes book (reported to release later this year).

The 10th Anniversary box set for Hordes is not surprising, but it is cool to see. My bet is that this box set will parallel the Butcher3 release, with Madrak3 being the Hordes equivalent (with, uh, whelp arguses?)

The sizzle reel is extremely exciting because it shows some very, very interesting artwork. Here's a collection of images from the video, in case you want to study them more in depth:

http://m.imgur.com/a/1ScRj

There's a ton of stuff in there that one could speculate about for hours, and I'm frankly far enough out of the Hordes loop that I'm mostly content to say "a lot of that stuff will probably be cool" and let that be enough.

But there is one image that even a fluff-curmudgeon like me gets excited about: there is very clearly artwork of Kromac wielding Rathrok. The fluff implications of that are fascinating, to say nothing of the mechanical implications (as well as pretty much confirming that the next book will have Madrak3 and Kromac2).

This is the kind of thing I was hoping for out of the Warmachine presentation, and I'm very excited for Hordes players to get it. The next Hordes book is probably a ways off (my guess is we won't see it until Fall 2015 at the earliest) so this gives those players plenty to talk about and speculate on in the mean time.

Closing Thoughts
The second wave of gargantuans is very exciting. The concept art for three of them is very cool, and the one model they have so far is absolutely stunning. What remains to be seen is how the rules will turn out.

I think PP is going to try to thread the needle between making them leaps and bounds better than the previous gargantuans, but also not making them as niche as the first wave. All of the spoilers they've revealed make the second wave already sound better/more effective/more fun than the first wave, so I'm expecting good things. Maybe not Stormwall/Prime Axiom/Earthbreaker things, but good things nonetheless.

And that sizzle reel. Not only did PP tease some new stuff, but they purposefully chose some of the more enigmatic and interesting images to tease, which makes it even more fun to speculate. It'll be interesting to keep an ear out for details about what they've shown as the months roll on.

Overall, I think its better to be optimistic about this second wave of gargantuans than not. At absolute worst, the second wave of gargantuans will be as mediocre as the previous wave was, and in that case you didn't lose anything. This release cycle won't be like the Colossals book for Warmachine (one 'caster and one Huge warnoun), so there will be plenty of other things to be excited about even if the new gargantuans are kind of lame. However, if the rules are any better than that (and I'm having a hard time believing they won't be) the Hordes factions will get some very cool looking, interesting models to work with.

Hopefully we'll get more details as the months roll on. PP's intro blurb for the presentation on their website says that the new gargantuans are among models they're planning to release through 2015-2016, so it may be awhile yet before we know anything concrete about any of them. As soon as more details emerge, I'll be sure to post them up and share my thoughts. If anyone has any speculations or thoughts of their own, feel free to post them up in the comments.

As always, thanks very much for reading!