I'm still working on my thoughts on Zerkova2, and they're likely to be...voluminous. So look for those in a separate post (or eight). For now, join me after the break for my first theorymachine thoughts on how to use some of the new Khador warjacks.
Similar to my thoughts and impressions recap on the new releases, I'll be working my way up the list of releases, starting with the (personally) least exciting.
Mad Dog
For all the slag I've thrown the Mad Dog's way, it isn't a useless model. I think one or two of these things is going to have a hard time making an impact, but it becomes a lot more interesting in lists where you're trying to absolutely drown your opponent in armor. The low cost, self sufficiency, and ability to possibly trample infantry (though that can be tricky in practice) makes the Mad Dog a compelling "filler" warjack for armor heavy builds.
Some sample thoughts:
Vlad1 - Mad Dogs of War:
Vladimir, The Dark Prince (*5pts)
* War Dog (1pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Conquest (19pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Conquest (19pts)
(Alternate: swap out Victor for Conquest and either drop the War Dog for min Mechaniks, or keep the War Dog and add a Gobber Tinkerer).
Probably my favorite possible use for Mad Dogs. Vlad1 has always been Berserker friendly, and while Mad Dogs give up hitting power, they bring Crusher and Jury Rigged [SPD] to the table, which gives this battlegroup decent anti-infantry potential. Vlad1's feat alone should allow for some excellent tramples, and you can throw Jury Rigged on top of that for 13" tramples with Signs & Portents (possibly; that much trampling is likely to run you out of Vlad1's CTRL) and Crusher.
Anchor all that with either of Khador's colossals (since Vlad1 works well with both of them), and you have a list with a lot of boxes, decent anti-infantry potential, and still solid shooting.
Butcher3 - B8:
Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed (*4pts)
* War Dog (1pts)
* Ruin (10pts)
* Rager (6pts)
* Rager (6pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
Greylord Ternion (Leader and 2 Grunts) (4pts)* Rager (6pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
* Mad Dog (5pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
(Alternate: Switch around the Ternion and Mechaniks with whatever support you want).
Taking the idea of the "Butcher3 + 3 warjacks" list and amping it up. One or two Ragers feel like an extremely easy pick to go with Butcher3 and they slot easily into this list set up. From there its all about jamming in as many Mad Dogs as possible, along with whatever portion of support you're comfortable with.
This list seems surprisingly legit. It puts an absolutely silly amount of boxes on the table and it gives you some really solid means to deliver Butcher3 and/or Ruin - clouds, Shield Guards (with Repair), and Wreck Markers from destroyed Mad Dogs to hide in. I don't think this will become the de-facto way to play Butcher3 or anything, but I can certainly see the merit in testing something like this out. It's almost like the Rager and Mad Dog were designed in the same cycle as Butcher3...
Karchev:
I won't pretend to have my own thoughts about Karchev. Anything I post here would just be a repeat of something said in either:
Brandon's excellent comment (Karchev Theme, T4)
or
KinGensai249's "Miserable Metal Mountain" forum thread (general Karchev list, with colossal anchor)
Both approaches highlight what the Mad Dog may mean for Karchev - cheap, self-sufficient warjack with some anti-infantry potential - and how to possibly make use of it with him.
Overall:
I'm still not jumping out of my seat for a chance to run Mad Dogs (that is going to get really confusing at some point), but I can definitely see where it would be fun. Vlad1 and Butcher3 are the routes I'd be most likely to go with it. The biggest downside to trying to get use out of the Mad Dog is that it feels like a warjack that is designed to be spammed, though maybe that is just because it was how everyone chose to try and apply it.
Rager:
The Rager is a much easier warjack to find a home for: just slap it into any list where you really wanted a Shield Guard. Finding the points may be tricky (though less so if you were running Raluk + Vanguard) but it's almost certainly worth the upgrade over the humble Ogrun Bokor. Or nothing at all.
The Rager is also an easy fit into lists where you didn't have a great job for the one warjack you were taking previously. It is likely to do the same thing as any "token" warjack - stand around and wait to possibly jump into the game later on - but unlike say, a Juggernaut, the Rager requires zero input from your warcaster to cart its big metal butt around the table (thanks to Aggressive) and it will be providing you with some defense for your 'caster (or another important target) with Shield Guard.
Some sample thoughts:
Butcher3 - Rager Revised:
Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed (*4pts)* Rager (6pts)
* Ruin (10pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Greylord Ternion (Leader and 2 Grunts) (4pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Black Dragon Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)
This is a retooling of the Butcher3 list I've been running, that has also recently been retooled to fit Ruin into the mix. It loses out on Fenris and the Dismount for the Drakun, but I think picking up a solid Shield Guard and Ruin is overall worth it. My biggest concern with this list is Ruin freaking things out - most importantly the Ternion and the Assassins - but I may get around part of that by finally giving in and buying a second unit of BD IFP (now that they're going to be available in a sexy, cheaper, plastic form).
Overall though, I think adding a Rager to the list does a lot to make it more resilient. It naturally adds more durability to the list, and having a Shield Guard around for Ruin and Butcher3 is going to be great. Plus there is this neat little trick: put clouds on the Reaver Guards, then run the Rager so that it's behind the clouds but still in Shield Guard range of both Reaver Guards. For maximum fun you could also throw a cloud on the Rager, giving you some LOS blocking redundancy. Possible with a Bokur/Vanguard before, but now you have a Large base to block LOS to Butcher3 as well.
Irusk1 - Thanks For The Infantry:
Kommandant Irusk (*6pts)* Rager (6pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
* Koldun Kapitan Valachev (2pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Black Dragon Officer & Standard (2pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kayazy Eliminators (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Iron Fang Kovnik (2pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)
You can fine tune the specifics, but this list illustrates the point: for anyone with +6 WJP, the Rager gives you a cheap, useful option to fill those points. Which then lets you go absolutely nuts with infantry/support. Totally possible with a Berserker before, but now you're getting a Shield Guard model in the deal, instead of just some cheap lump that is probably just going to hang around, not doing a whole lot.
Overall:
As I mentioned in my initial set of impressions, the Rager is probably the model I'm most excited for, that I also have the fewest immediate applications for. Butcher3 is an easy place to drop one in, and that is absolutely going to happen as soon as the Rager becomes available. But in general, the Rager is going to find its way into random lists. I may not have a lot of places for it immediately, but I'm sure the Rager will pop up often enough to be worth the purchase.
Victor:
Victor has the broadest application of all the new Khador warjacks. Although Conquest may still have it's spots, I think Victor accomplishes what Conquest could not: it gives Khador a good, general purpose colossal that can slot into just about any list and be useful/desirable. The combination of excellent main gun, useful side guns, and very reasonable point cost makes Victor a strong consideration when building any battlegroup.
Here are a couple of Victor lists that I'm itching to get on the table:
Sorscha2 - Apotheosis:
Forward Kommander Sorscha (*6pts)* Victor (18pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
* Koldun Kapitan Valachev (2pts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood (5pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (2pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)
(Alternatives: use the one point gained from switching Conquest to Victor to get Reinholdt back into the list, or use the points for all three Rocketeers to finally get Eiryss2 into the list).
I've been loving the hell out of Sorscha2 lately. She brings so much to the table and can cover so many different bases that I'm starting to really believe that she is the best 'caster in the faction. There are a lot of ways to run her, and I've been a big fan of running a colossal for her battlegroup. However, Conquest has often felt like it didn't contribute a whole lot; as is the way of things with Conquest, on any turn it isn't get a critical Devastation, it probably isn't doing much.
Enter Victor. It's Siege Mortar provides crucial Continuous Fire on hit, making this list better at dealing with more types of infantry, while also providing denial and possible accuracy increases. Flare'ing durable units to make it that much more likely for Sorscha2 to stick her Freezing Grip should be fun. On top of that, Victor ends up saving me a point in the exchange, which can be turned into all kinds of goodness with the list.
This is probably the first Victor list I'm going to try out. I'm very excited to see how it works out.
Harkevich - Burnt Ham:
Kommander Harkevich, the Iron Wolf (*5pts)* Black Ivan (9pts)
* Victor (17pts)
* Victor (17pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Winter Guard Field Gun Crew (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)
Everyone went straight to Harkevich once the full rules for Victor dropped. I may not be original here, but I've put my time in with Harkevich (under less ideal circumstances) so I'm damn sure going to revisit him when the gravy train may have finally rolled in.
The main thing about this list is that it is a T4 version of his theme list, which allows you to start the game with all of Harkevich's upkeeps in play. That allows you to run everything first turn under Escort, then toss out Broadsides. You'll start the game with your Victors 17"/20" in on the table, and be putting Siege Mortar shots 37"/40" in on the table turn 1. Seems...pretty good. Then every turn after that you'll be putting out four 5" AOEs with any combination of Incindiary, Flare, and Crater that will be useful to you. With Fortune and Black Ivan in the mix.
The points outside the battlegroup are largely fluff/tier necessity. The one thing I'm a fan of (and likely to keep) are the two minimum Mechanik units. Between that and Harkevich's feat its going to be a helluva battlegroup to chew through and it actually stands a pretty good chance of handling a variety of threats.
Alternatively, you can drop Harkevich out of theme and free up a whole bunch of points, while also opening up very interesting units and support models. I think its kind of a toss up as to which one is better, which is a very good thing (previously, I didn't see much of a benefit to playing Harkevich outside of his theme).
I do not love the idea of having to buy *two* colossals just to get Harkevich on the table in a competitive sense, but I'm very close to being willing to do so if it is as good as I/everyone hopes it is. I will definitely be proxying some form of a Harkevich + Victor (x2) list soon, probably starting with the theme list, and going from there.
-----
This is kind of my first pass at coming up with lists where I want to use the new warjacks; more ideas will come with time. One of the biggest (har har) things I want to test out is revisiting a lot of Khador 'casters with a Victor in the battlegroup. I've liked what a colossal brings to the table for Khador ever since Conquest's rules were spoiled. Now that Khador may have a colossal that a) has the great base traits shared by all colossals and, much more importantly, b) may also be able to meaningfully contribute in most games, I'm willing to cycle back around and do another round of testing with each warcaster. I don't expect any significant surprises - I think Harkevich is the only 'caster that Victor is likely to elevate significantly, but I'd love to be wrong.
I should be getting a game in relatively soon. I still haven't decided whether I'm going to run the Sorscha2 + Victor list from above, or some variant of Harkevich + Victor x2. I'm trying to stall Butcher3 experiments until I can finish painting Ruin, and I have Zerkova2's actual models coming to me soon, so I'll probably wait until I get her together before playing her. Plus I still need to come up with a list I like for her, which will be an exercise (and post) for another time.
Until next time, thanks very much for reading!
The main thing about this list is that it is a T4 version of his theme list, which allows you to start the game with all of Harkevich's upkeeps in play. That allows you to run everything first turn under Escort, then toss out Broadsides. You'll start the game with your Victors 17"/20" in on the table, and be putting Siege Mortar shots 37"/40" in on the table turn 1. Seems...pretty good. Then every turn after that you'll be putting out four 5" AOEs with any combination of Incindiary, Flare, and Crater that will be useful to you. With Fortune and Black Ivan in the mix.
The points outside the battlegroup are largely fluff/tier necessity. The one thing I'm a fan of (and likely to keep) are the two minimum Mechanik units. Between that and Harkevich's feat its going to be a helluva battlegroup to chew through and it actually stands a pretty good chance of handling a variety of threats.
Alternatively, you can drop Harkevich out of theme and free up a whole bunch of points, while also opening up very interesting units and support models. I think its kind of a toss up as to which one is better, which is a very good thing (previously, I didn't see much of a benefit to playing Harkevich outside of his theme).
I do not love the idea of having to buy *two* colossals just to get Harkevich on the table in a competitive sense, but I'm very close to being willing to do so if it is as good as I/everyone hopes it is. I will definitely be proxying some form of a Harkevich + Victor (x2) list soon, probably starting with the theme list, and going from there.
-----
This is kind of my first pass at coming up with lists where I want to use the new warjacks; more ideas will come with time. One of the biggest (har har) things I want to test out is revisiting a lot of Khador 'casters with a Victor in the battlegroup. I've liked what a colossal brings to the table for Khador ever since Conquest's rules were spoiled. Now that Khador may have a colossal that a) has the great base traits shared by all colossals and, much more importantly, b) may also be able to meaningfully contribute in most games, I'm willing to cycle back around and do another round of testing with each warcaster. I don't expect any significant surprises - I think Harkevich is the only 'caster that Victor is likely to elevate significantly, but I'd love to be wrong.
I should be getting a game in relatively soon. I still haven't decided whether I'm going to run the Sorscha2 + Victor list from above, or some variant of Harkevich + Victor x2. I'm trying to stall Butcher3 experiments until I can finish painting Ruin, and I have Zerkova2's actual models coming to me soon, so I'll probably wait until I get her together before playing her. Plus I still need to come up with a list I like for her, which will be an exercise (and post) for another time.
Until next time, thanks very much for reading!
The Siege Mortar reaching to the 37" line under Hark T4 makes for some potentially REALLY effective psycho-bombing by drifting into the enemies deployment with ease, or setting AD troops on fire. Especially when he's playing a theme force that grants extra deployment space, which means that you could actually hit directly.
ReplyDeleteYou did not have a turn yet, but you already lost models/are stuck in rough terrain/your 'Caster is fucking on fire.
Da-yum.
Check back on Tuesday for more about this specific topic. ;)
Delete